As a Dead Fellaz holder, I was eligible for a one-on-one 30 min call with Horde Mother, CEO and Founder Betty.
I entered into a raffle using !enter command on their discord, and I won! The following is the result of that 30 min call.
JL: I have wanted to meet you and ask you questions for a while now. I’m reminded, from our chat history, that I asked you for an interview back in 2021. I would love to be able to ask you a few questions now and see if you would be open to me writing them up in a blog sort of format.
Betty: Honestly, publish away. I'm quite happy for you to write whatever you want.
JL: Amazing! To start, I’d like to give you some background on my Deadfellaz journey. Your project was actually the very first project that I ever bought a PFP. I was doing some research into the collectables craze. The Bored Apes had just launched and were getting a lot of traction, and I was like, what's going on? What is this all about? And I was working on an article about NFT collectables, and a friend of mine said, “Go! Now! Mint Dead Fellaz, I didn't know anything about the project.
Betty: Too funny!
JL: Yeah, I just kind of aped in because my friend said to do it. I minted six, and I flipped like three of them within a few minutes for a 3x profit, and I was like, “OOOH, this is why everybody does this!” Yeah, so I feel like Dead Fellaz was the beginning of my journey as a trader. And while I didn't know anything about the project then, I know a lot more about it now, and I'm just so lucky that my friend had great tastes. I could have just as easily jumped into some rug, but I didn’t, and here we are. So how did you get into the collectables/NFT/PFP world?
Betty: Well, I've always been someone that collects things. Like, I was a big Pokemon person. I’d collect all the cards. I’d also collect all the stickers. I used to collect Buffy the Vampire Slayer merchandise.
JL: Love that.
Betty: Yeah, I've always kind of collected things. And so that part of it I immediately got, but we got into it because, at the start of January 2021, the creative production agency that Psych and I ran had just lost a huge contract a few months prior. We did a lot of really cool creative stuff for IRL activations, that sort of thing, and a really, really big global activation got cancelled, obviously, because of COVID. So we lost the biggest contracts that we had going, and it was just really stressful. Um, and we were looking to pivot. And this just came along. An artist from a digital art collective that Psych was a part of and is still a part of called Depthcore.
He was talking to some of the artists there, and they said, “Hey, you should check out NFTs. Some of them were minting NFTs, and so he did, and the rest is history. He was doing a lot of the visuals for a lot of the OG punk community. They were having events in crypto voxels and that sort of thing. And then he kept getting asked to do art for people's projects. And I was like, you know, we could do this. This is definitely what we're good at. And so when I saw the Bored Ape thing happening, and the PFP thing started to kick off, I was really fascinated with how communities were formed around them, and I just didn't feel like I was connected to anything. I didn't feel like I wanted to use anything out there as my profile pictures. So we just made our own.
JL: If you want it done right, do it yourself.
Betty: Yeah, exactly.
JL: Did you anticipate any of what you've built in the last two years? You probably didn't expect it to take off like it has, or did you? Was that always part of the plan?
Betty: Yeah, I actually did expect it to take off, which might sound a little bit overconfident, but I knew what we were doing was special. We're, I mean, we're brand builders anyway. It's kind of what we've always done and what we know. And it was just a new context and a new medium. And we haven't we hadn't had the chance prior to really run with something like this. And so I was like, I knew it! I don't know. While we were creating it, I just knew that it felt special. You know? It just had an energy I couldn't explain.
JL: I get it. You just had that gut feeling that was going to be big. Something big was coming.
Betty: Yeah, exactly.
JL: What was the biggest surprise for you since minting?
Betty: I mean, there are multiple different ones in different ways. But one of the biggest surprises and one of the hardest things to adjust to is the way running a project like this, and being in front of a project like this means you're kind of in front of just 1000s of people all the time. You know, I'm, like, accessible all the time by so many people. And it's a weird thing to try and adjust to. I have to get security for events and stuff. It's a lot.
JL: How do you manage being a new celebrity? Are there any positives to being recognisable?
Betty: Yeah, I mean, it's fun. It's fun, but I'd say, like, 50/50. I love my job. I wouldn't change it for anything, and I love meeting people. I think that's the nicest part, getting to interact with so many people and hearing how they resonate with what we're building and how they're co-creating. So many people that are big fans of the brand are also builders with us. They are making cool stuff, and they show me. I get to see what they're doing, and maybe we’ve inspired them to create something of their own. So I love that part.
JL: Bet that feels amazing.
Betty: Yeah, but the constant threats and things like that are kind of a lot. So that part I don't enjoy. I have to be very careful.
JL: Do you find that you are more cautious every time you tweet? Does it influence you at all? Or, you just kind of do Betty, and everybody else can lick bricks.
Betty: I just do me. I think that my publicist, you know, people's publicists typically tell them to avoid set subjects. So whatever, but I have, I have great PR that just understands the vision that we have. We're a mission-driven company, and I've always treated everyone the same. Now I have more audience; obviously, people get all in their feels about certain things that I say, but I'm honestly not saying anything outrageous. The ideas that I'm putting out there and not overly, I don't know, new. I just think the space that we're in and that demographic that is now seeing these tweets. Maybe that’s what causes them to be received in a certain way sometimes. But it is what it is. I think if you're not making people mad, or saying the wrong thing, really, it’s because you're not operating outside of your bubble.
JL: Right. Yeah. If you don't have at least a couple of enemies, you're doing something boring.
Betty: I feel like, honestly, as well, they sometimes criticise, and you're like, yeah, fair enough. You know, I’m not always right. I know that.
JL: That's good. I think that's a healthy perspective.
JL: In a lot of ways, you're an example for women in general but especially women in our industry. We can all see the Twitter comments. It's not fun for me as a spectator. I can imagine how hard it is for you. I would like to say thank you for being the first out of the gate. I mean, you're taking a lot of the brunt force for us, and I think it's gonna really help women in our industry. So kudos to you for your thick skin and your brave heart.
Betty: Awe, thank you.
JL: In your Twitter bio, it says that you are represented by United Talent. Did that happen before the mint or after?
Betty: It was an after thing. They're one of the biggest talent agencies in the world, and they contacted me early last year wanting to talk about representing Dead Fellaz, and we had a conversation. We had lots of conversations. Their ethos is very aligned with ours. They really understand web three very deeply. The people on their web3 team, especially. They are also involved in the space, you know, they really get it. It's not like institutionalizing what should be kept secret. They're really working to weave things in thoughtfully. So I was pleased to work with them.
JL: What kind of benefits does being associated with them bring? How does their partnership help you?
Betty: Well, it's just an immediate cut-through to web2 institutions, right? So like, I can, as a two-year-old brand, I can tell our story as strongly as I can. And you know, that will often get us places that you wouldn't believe. But at the same time, many people are scared about this industry. And the people that have been working in entertainment and media for, you know, many decades, have a lot of rapport with people that we'd love to work with. And so it's just a really great cut-through to be able to translate what's happening in web3 to web2 and see how we can weave it all together. And yeah, well, I mean, we do a lot of partnerships that you see ourselves, but at the same time, like, we work very closely with UTA as well.
JL: Nice. What is one of your favourite collaborations that you've done since the mint?
Betty: Oh, gosh. Kind of honestly, I love them all. I think the thing that blew my mind the most, and I was like, “What is going on!!?” Was when we did the Chicago Bulls logo, and they changed their profile picture to it. I was like, oh my god!
JL: Surreal.
Betty: Yeah. I have moments where I look back, and I realize, like, holy shit! As much as I anticipated it happening, it really is still so fucking crazy.
JL: Do you consider yourself a collector?
Betty: Absolutely! Absolutely! Yeah, I collect a lot of art. I have a lot of art in my collection. I love 1/1 art. I mean, I have a lot of art. A lot of art.
JL: Are there any artists you want to shout out? I'll mention them in my blog. I'll link the artwork and your collection.
Betty: There are lots of artists, and it would be very hard to single people out, but Cyber Yu Yu. I am completely obsessed.
I love Fat Baby.
I love, love Lirona.
There are a lot of people I love. So it's hard. I have a lot of art and a lot of favourites. So it's hard to pick them out.
JL: I would love to show you some of my art if you wouldn't mind.
Betty: Go for it!
JL: I have a background in fine art. I am a painter by training and had a minor focus on Art History, specifically the Italian Renaissance. So that's where my background is.
Betty: I love that so much. Do you know ROMbrandt? Evan Odette?
JL: I haven't heard of them? No.
Betty: He's a multifaceted artist. He's just so wonderful. He's a good friend. We've been friends since I kind of joined this space.
Betty: Oh, this is beautiful. Thanks for sharing.
JL: It’s from a series called Past Peasants’ Futures. And it's this concept that I wanted an image that had no time. It doesn't belong in the past, the present or the future. So I worked with many mediums. It is a traditionally painted artwork on a canvas that was then animated and minted on the blockchain. So it kind of has a foot in the past with the traditional way it’s painted, minted in the present, and preserved for the future. So I dig that.
Betty: Very cool.
JL: And this is my very first NFT. I minted this one in March 2021. It’s based on the idea that parents of the past also safeguarded their children's identities, as we see now in online photography. So I made a series of paintings, one from every decade of the 20th century. And that was my genesis. Sadly, I am finding that traditional painters don't get a lot of love in this space.
Betty: Yeah, it's a funny thing. I've noticed the same thing.
JL: Even though I digitally photographing my artwork, I'm minting it on-chain. It is a digital artwork, just like anybody else’s NFT, but because it has this physical aspect in its creation, it is somehow lesser. I am baffled by it because I don't view the paint on canvases as anything more than a file on your computer. I mean, it's just a remnant of the creation process. I don't understand how it can add value or detract value from the NFT. And from all the ones I've sold, nobody really wants the physicals. So, I'm happy to paint over them. I think as AI becomes more prevalent, maybe we'll see a renewed interest in this kind of artwork because I can prove that a human made it. You know? But who knows?
Betty: No, I was thinking about that the other day, actually. How interesting it will be to see that and see how people receive it and how people differentiate value between AI and, you know, physically painted works. I actually love AI art.
JL: Me too.
Betty: And I've got a lot of artist friends that hate web3 a lot. And, you know, we've had discussions, and you just have to be happy to agree to disagree sometimes, but yeah, I think AI makes it even harder to get across the idea of web3 with them, to be honest.
JL: I use AI now in my practice to help me with some of the composites and reference-making before I paint. And I know it has helped me. I think that AI can do a whole lot with image making and helping artists really sort of streamline different things in their process. If you're a lazy artist, AI will just make you lazier. And if you're a hardworking and ambitious artist, AI can help you be more ambitious. It's just like a tool, like anything else. The biggest thing is that collectors will have to do more due diligence; if they don't want to collect ai art. It going to be a lot harder to differentiate.
Betty: Yeah, yeah, exactly. Exactly. I think that it's going to be really cool to see how empowered people are, though, as well, you know? There are so many people that have such great ideas, and they have creativity of thought, just some really cool stuff in their brain, but they can't get it out.
JL: Yeah, poets will become painters.
Betty: How cool! And just seeing the development of stuff as well. I can see how, even stuff we develop, where we can loop in AI at some points, it makes it so much more efficient. I don't know. It's just really cool. It's also terrifying. It's also very scary.
JL: Some of the best things in life are equally exciting as they are terrifying. At least, in my experience, that usually means I'm doing something right. I hope AI is the same, but there will always be bad actors.
Betty: Yeah. Oh my god. No.
JL: But that's not new. That's not new to web three or AI. I mean, there have always been bandits at the frontier.
Betty: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Are you using Blue Sky social?
JL: No. Should I? What is it like? I have heard of it. I saw that you needed an invitation, and I'm not much of a begging-for-invites kind of vibe. But yeah, I would check it.
Betty: I'll give you one.
JL: Oh, that'd be great. I love that. Yeah, I will definitely check it out. An alternative to Twitter sounds peaceful.
Betty: Yeah, it is full of art, and the algorithm is a lot nicer. So you just have to download the app from the App Store. And, then you just use this code to get in.
JL: Perfect. I will definitely check it out.
Betty: Cool. There are loads of people in there already. It's that they're being really stingy now with the invites. So I've been harassing them, to try and get them for Dead Fellaz holders, which I've been working through. I managed to get most of the people that are beta testing the Streaming Fellaz right now and in the mods and stuff. So yeah, we're getting there. We're getting there.
JL: Well, thanks for letting me have one. I really appreciate it.
Betty: Oh, you're welcome. Do you have any questions for me? About anything specific that we can dive into? Before we have to go?
JL: Yeah, I have one more question. If you could have your dream collaboration, what would it be?
Betty: So there is something that's happening that is beyond a dream for us. So that's already kind of happening.
JL: Wow, that's exciting!
Betty: Yeah, it is. It is. I can't talk about it yet. But it's really cool, and it's something that when we started, I was like, THIS. This is what I want to do eventually. You know, I don't know how long it's gonna take to get there. And then it's already happening. So…
JL: I'm a little bit sad that it's already happening because it means you can't tell me about it. But then it’s also awesome. Very, very exciting when dreams come true. That's pretty rad. Congratulations.
Betty: Thank you. I'm really, really, really excited. And we can tell you about it soon. I think I have a meeting next week with some people. I'm hoping to get some stuff approved so that we can talk about it. It's just these few parts, you know what it's like, with NDA stuff. That’s how the world works right now.
JL: For the best. Slow and deliberate is much better than quick and off the hip with some of these things.
Betty: 100%
JL: I really love these community calls. I think it's a great initiative, and I feel very grateful to be selected for one. Thank you so much for your time.
Betty: Oh, you're so welcome. Thank you. I love doing it. Honestly, I was like, when I had the idea, I thought, I'll just try out for like a month and see how it goes. It might be just so terrible. It might not fit into life. I just didn't know what's gonna happen, but I knew I wanted to do it. I talk to people all day, every day, but this is very different. Having a one on one conversation is different. We're gonna start offering the option to record them and to allow other people to listen. For the community to listen in as well, but we're not ready to do that just yet. Yeah, just offering the option. I just think it's nice. I really like it.
JL: Thank you so much for letting me write these questions and answers for my blog. I really enjoyed the chat.
Betty: Thank you so much. I'm gonna go and head over to the conference now at consensus and take a million bags and hats. Wish me luck!
JL: Good Luck, Betty!